Documents Point to Illegal Campaign Coordination Between Trump and the NRA

Documents Point to Illegal Campaign Coordination Between Trump and the NRA

“I don’t think I’ve ever seen a situation where illegal coordination seems more obvious,” said Ann Ravel, a former chair of the Federal Election Commission who reviewed the records. “It is so blatant that it doesn’t even seem sloppy. Everyone involved probably just thinks there aren’t going to be any consequences.”

...

The NRA was free to spend as much money as it wanted on behalf of Trump in 2016. But under federal election law, if an independent group and a campaign shareelection-related information, then its expenditures no longer qualify as independent and are instead treated as in-kind donations, subject to a $5,000 limit.

Stupid Watergate it needs its own title

“This is very strong evidence, if not proof, of illegal coordination,” said Larry Noble, a former general counsel for the Federal Election Commission. “This is the heat of the general election, and the same person is acting as an agent for the NRA and the Trump campaign.”

It's a shame that the article doesn't once mention Russia, because they seem to have their hand in the NRA, like they do everything else that involves Trump and Republicans. Naturally, Mueller is investigating.

The F.B.I. and special counsel Robert Mueller are investigating meetings between N.R.A. officials and powerful Russian operatives, trying to determine if those contacts had anything to do with the gun group spending $30 million to help elect Donald Trump—triple what it invested on behalf of Mitt Romney in 2012. The use of foreign money in American political campaigns is illegal. One encounter of particular interest to investigators is between Donald Trump Jr. and a Russian banker at an N.R.A. dinner.

No wonder Mueller is taking a while: there's like 10x the amount of crimes compared to Watergate. Watergate was 2 years.

Mueller might be deconstructing this web of crime for a long time.

This is what I've been saying. Everytime they uncover a crime, there's more crimes there. It's crimeception all the way down. Either that, or it's like the little Russian nesting dolls, but with crimes. It's not what crimes do we prosecute, but when do we stop prosecuting.

Step 1) Have Russia give money to the NRA

Step 2) Tell them how to spend it

Step 3) Deny collusion

And Russia funneled $30m to the NRA. I've never felt so ill as I had seeing Dana Loesch's calls of violence against the left and the media. These people are traitors, they are criminals and they belong in jail. This cannot be sustained by furrowed brows and half-hearted press bites on the part of the GOP.

I want to see every one of these colluding treasonous fucks in prison.

edit. I had too many windows open and got my numbers confused. The Russians did not give the NRA $30m though they did funnel money to them. My fury-boner was obscuring my sources- I think today is the 'snapping day' for me with all the rampant corruption after the fuckery in WI, MI and NC.

edit 2. Apparently my original $30m was correct. Thank you fellow Redditors!!

They can't start prosecuting crimes....

points to MAGA hat

If the crimes never end.

Jan 3rd can't come soon enough. Lots of houses built out of proverbial cards are going to come down all at once. There's going to be a tsunami of subpoenas washing over the land.

https://i.imgur.com/CxCQq5t.mp4

The two purchases may have looked coincidental; Red Eagle and AMAG appear at first glance to be separate firms. But each is closely connected to a major conservative media-consulting firm called National Media Research, Planning and Placement. In fact, the three outfits are so intertwined that both the NRA’s and the Trump campaign’s ad buys were authorized by the same person: National Media’s chief financial officer, Jon Ferrell.

Good gravy. Just as the FBI investigates whether the NRA was spending Russian money on those ad buys.

FBI counterintelligence investigators have focused on the activities of Alexander Torshin, the deputy governor of Russia’s central bank who is known for his close relationships with both Russian President Vladimir Putin and the NRA, the sources said.

And we still don't know what Spanish Prosecutor Jose Grinda meant by this when he spoke about handing over wiretaps involving Torshin to the FBI:

However, Torshin and Trump Jr. attended a separate NRA dinner the same night.

When Grinda was asked whether he was concerned about Torshin's interactions with Trump Jr. and other American political figures, Grinda replied, "Mr. Trump's son should be concerned."

(Edit: Please read left______right's response below, which indicates that Grinda's comment likely referred to peril to Trump Jr he had inferred from publicly available information, rather than the wiretaps themselves).

The FEC has the authority to launch investigations and seek civil penalties, but it’s unlikely that the NRA or the Trump campaign will face any official action. The FEC’s four commissioners—it is supposed to have six—have been deadlocked for years in an ideological split, making the unanimous vote required for significant investigations almost impossible to achieve. The Department of Justice is also authorized to launch investigations, but prosecutions under the Federal Election Campaign Act are uncommon. If convicted, violators can be subject to criminal fines and up to five years in prison.

Experts say the apparent coordination is the most glaring they’ve ever seen.

I've always been partial to RussiaLago.

Step 4) recruit Fox to tell the dipshits that all of the above is A-Okay!

Interesting that this comes just as yesterday we got news that Paul Erickson was looking at an indictment for espionage and Maria Butina was possibly cutting a deal.

Edit:

Another National Media employee, Ben Angle, was identified in the 2018 book Inside Campaigns: Elections through the Eyes of Political Professionals as an architect of Trump’s airwave strategy. “In mid-September,” the book says, “Angle and his boss were summoned to Trump Tower and told their firm would be placing all of the Trump campaign’s television advertising during the last seven weeks of the campaign.” Angle is listed on National Media’s website as a “senior media buyer.” In October, his name appeared in FCC paperwork as the contact for an NRA ad buy, placed through Red Eagle, at an ABC station in Denver, Colorado.

This is getting spicy. The Trump campaign canceled their ad buys around this time

The cancellations cover the four biggest states on the battleground map — Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida and North Carolina — as well as four other states, New Hampshire, Maine, Iowa, and Colorado.

Jason Miller, a senior Trump communications adviser, said on Twitter: “Our data-driven campaign is shifting resources from over-performing markets to new battlegrounds w/in the battlegrounds. Buy is growing.”

This was happening while the Trump campaign was being outspent on T.V. ads by Clinton

And from the Mueller indictment of Russian hackers, we know that the guccifer pseudonym had shown hacked DNC voter turnout models to Roger Stone

So to put in logical order:

Trump is getting outspent in T.V. ads

Trump associate gets peaks at Clinton voter turnout models

Trump cancels ad buys

Trump summons advertising firm that is already partnered with the NRA to Trump tower, and radically shifts ad buys to new locations

NRA uses Russian money to buy ads targeting Clinton turnout areas given to them by the Trump campaign who got hacked data from Roger Stone.

Omg if the NRA goes down with trump it would be the best day ever.

Lawyer: We call it the Three Stoges Defense.

Trump: So what you are saying is I'm untouchable.

Lawyer: Oh no no, even a slight change in...

Trump: Untouchable.

Just call it the Republican Party. When someone says Republican (and to a lesser extent, libertarian) my mind conjures images of the greediest most unethical individuals. Some are also stupid and some a racist. But they're all money-obsessed fearful little people who would deserve our pity if they weren't so malicious and powerful.

In other words, we are fucking over your democracy plainly out in the open and we think you're going to do absolutely nothing about it

Libertarianism:

Astrology for men

Ah, the C. Montgomery Burns tactic. Classic.

The article doesn't mention Russia because it has a more incredible point that is somehow still receiving scant mention in the comments of this Reddit thread:

both the NRA’s and the Trump campaign’s ad buys were authorized by the same person: National Media’s chief financial officer, Jon Ferrell.

HE SIGNED BOTH AD BUYS!

"It is so blatant that it doesn’t even seem sloppy. Everyone involved probably just thinks there aren’t going to be any consequences.”

And so far, they're right!

Less than a month to go...and Trump hasn't even come up with a second-half response. Largely on account of insinuating he's going to fire half the administration then doing nothing outside of Sessions a full month ago.

It says something that the state-level Republicans up in the northern rust belt have clamped down on outgoing power more effectively than this dullard

The NRA is compromised

A few weeks after President Trump launched his Presidential Campaign he was asked a question by a Russian activist on what he would do about Russian sanctions, Trump responded by suggesting that he would rescind the sanctions.[1] The Russian that posed the question was Maria Butina, a woman named in the Fusion GPS Congressional testimony. Maria Butina is a protege of reputed Russian mobster and Putin ally Alexander Torshin, below I will explain who Torshin is and his extensive ties to the NRA;

We know powerful Russians have close ties to the NRA and are being investigated for funneling millions into the organization. This influx of money from Russia is being investigated by FBI Counterintelligence as the NRA's campaign contributions during this Presidental election doubled previous campaigns.[2] It was at an NRA convention where it was planned that the Trump campaign meet with Alexander Torshin, an ally of Vladimir Putin, a reputed mobster and deputy governor of the Russian central bank.[3] Alexander Torshin is wanted in Spain in connection to a money laundering operation for a Russian crime syndicate.[4] Alexander Torshin reportedly told a Trump campaign adviser that he could arrange a back-channel meeting between President Trump and President Putin.[5] The House Intelligence Committee testimony of Fusion GPS CEO Glen Simpson was released, in it he testifies that Russia had infiltrated the NRA and other conservative groups in America.[6]

Pg. 142 - 144 House Intelligence Committee Testimony

MS. SPEIER: Okay. What is the interest of Russia with the National Rifle Association?

MR. SIMPSON: I think that most of what we have found is pretty much out there now. You know, it's been said by others, but, you know, what eventually - it appears the Russians, you know, infiltrated the NRA And there is more than one explanation for why. But I would say broadly speaking, it appears that the Russian operation was designed to infiltrate conservative organizations. And they targeted various conservative organizations, religious and otherwise, and they seem to have made a very concerted effort to get in with the NRA. And so there is a Russian banker-slash-Duma member-slash-Mafia leader named Alexander Torshin who is a life member of the NRA. And we spent a lot of time investigating Mr. Torshin. And he is well known to Spanish law enforcement for money laundering activity, and you have probably seen the press articles. And I think the Spanish files on him should be available to you. And he, as you know, was supposed to have a meeting with President Trump after the inauguration. And somebody noticed that there had been some stories about him that weren't pretty good. So he is one of the more important figures, but, you know, another woman with whom he was working, Maria Butina, also was a big Trump fan in Russia, and then suddenly showed up here and started hanging around the Trump transition after the election and rented an apartment and enrolled herself at AU, which I assume gets you a visa.

MS. SPEIER: You said there were other conservative groups. Are there other conservative groups in the United States that they have infiltrated to your knowledge?

MR. SIMPSON: I think there's been -we have done some research on some religious groups having relationships w ith the Russians, having, developing, and pursuing relationships with various religious groups. The names of them escape my mind. But there has been a lot of that. And then there has been the independence movements, California independence, Texas independence. You know, it's a big operation.

NPR did amazing piece uncovering the depth of Torshin's ties to the NRA. This piece of investigative work is a must read. The National Rifle Association is likely compromised, Torshin boasts of his incredibly close ties to NRA executives including being invited by NRA leadership to be an election observer in 2012. A reputed Russian mobster was invited by the NRA to observe the 2012 Federal Election, this is how close his ties to the NRA are.[7]

On his verified Twitter account, Torshin talked about how he knew Donald Trump through the NRA, citing a connection at the group's 2015 convention. Responding to a tweet about comedian Larry David accusing Trump of being a racist, Torshin said he knew the businessman through the NRA, and defended him.

"I saw him in Nashville" in April 2015, Torshin added later, the date and site of the NRA's 2015 convention. Trump gave a speech at that convention, the outlines of which would become familiar as his stump speech throughout the 2016 presidential campaign. The White House did not respond to repeated requests for comment by NPR, but denied Trump has ever met Torshin to Bloomberg News in 2017.

Torshin has used his repeated trips to NRA conventions to cultivate relationships with top NRA officials. And his Twitter account documents that he has personally met with every person who has been president of the NRA since 2012.

On Twitter, Torshin portrayed these meetings as more than merely casual encounters. In 2017, he tweeted that he was bringing a gift to then-NRA President Allan Cors, and suggested he was familiar with Cors' hobbies.

In a public DropBox album that Torshin linked to from his Twitter account, he's seen meeting with former NRA president Jim Porter, as well as former NRA president David Keene.

His tweets suggest a longtime relationship with Keene, who repeatedly appears in photos as Torshin documents his visits, suggesting that their meeting was not merely coincidental. Keene did not respond to a request for comment.

Torshin has also met the current president of the NRA, Pete Brownell. Brownell was part of an NRA delegation that visited Moscow in 2015.

These relationships that he cultivated appeared to open another door. Torshin came to the United States in 2012 as an international election observer, and watched as ballots were cast during the Obama-Romney presidential contest in Tennessee. This was possible, he wrote, due to his NRA links.

"Tennessee resident Kline Preston requested Mr. Torshin to be an international observer in November 2012," Adam Ghassemi, a spokesman for the Tennessee Secretary of State, told NPR. The Washington Post reported last year that Preston, a Tennessee lawyer, was the one who originally introduced Torshin to former NRA president David Keene back in 2011.

1) Mother Jones - Trump Spoke to a Russian Activist About Ending Sanctions—Just Weeks After Launchin...

2) McClatchy DC - FBI investigating whether Russian money went to NRA to help Trump

3) CBS - Trump Jr. met with man with close ties to Kremlin

4) Bloomberg - Mobster or Central Banker? Spanish Cops Allege This Russian Both

5) New York Times - Operative Offered Trump Campaign ‘Kremlin Connection’ Using N.R.A. Ties

6) House Intelligence Committee - Fusion GPS Testimony

7) NPR - Depth Of Russian Politician's Cultivation Of NRA Ties Revealed

They gave $30 mil at minimum

https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/02/16/did-kremlin-give-money-to-nra/

The extent to which the FBI has evidence of money flowing from Torshin to the NRA, or of the NRA’s participation in the transfer of funds, could not be learned.

However, the NRA reported spending a record $55 million on the 2016 elections, including $30 million to support Trump – triple what the group devoted to backing Republican Mitt Romney in the 2012 presidential race. Most of that was money was spent by an arm of the NRA that is not required to disclose its donors.

Two people with close connections to the powerful gun lobby said its total election spending actually approached or exceeded $70 million. The reporting gap could be explained by the fact that independent groups are not required to reveal how much they spend on Internet ads or field operations, including get-out-the-vote efforts.

Stone, Peter, and Gordon, Greg. “FBI Investigating Whether Russian Money Went to NRA to Help Trump.”   McClatchy. 18 January 2018.

Atlas Shrugged: The world's longest and least logical fairy tale.

Step 5) profit

Hypocrisy and libertarianism go together like veganism and not eating meat.

Didn't Ayn Rand die in poverty while suckling on the same government teat she spent her life railing against?

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

-John Rogers

Your linked article only says that the NRA spent 30 M on Trump, but not that the Russians gave the NRA 30 M.

Personally I believe they probably did give at least 30 M to them.

Gosh, blood money AND treason money.

This could mean a lot of different things, but my theory is that Democrats could agree to keeping the more sordid details of the Mueller investigation--and their subsequent House investigations--out of the public eye if the GOP publicly pushes Trump to resign or face impeachment.

I really hope that Democrats don't pull this bullshit. Any details that are redacted should be for national security reasons, for protection of intelligence assets, and the like. Sunshine is the best disinfectant, and in this case, we're going to have to spread the muck out over a large area to have any hope of drying it out...

They're already broke, probably running on credit. They had to get rid of free water and coffee at their headquarters.

Lesser extent with libertarians? Hell no, they are worse.

I like "Russia-Lago" because "-a-Lago" has serious "-gate" potential.

Also, "-gate" has been ruined by the sheer number of non-scandals that it's been attached to. Nine times out of ten, if you see somebody calling it "Russiagate," they're trying to minimize its importance. Check the Google results.

Dude, no. When we say that the Muller investigation is non-partisan, that's exactly what it means. He's not doing all this shit to try and force leverage the Republicans to vote differently. The Democrats don't get to choose which laws are enforced or bargain in good faith because the GOP's back is to the wall. If that were the result of all of this then Trump and the rest of the republicans would have every right to say it was a corrupt investigation.

If all of this corrupt bullshit is ever going to end it needs to be exposed, hunted down, and prosecuted as heavily as possible in a totally non-partisan way. Blackmailing the other side is fucked up and it doesn't remove the problem at all, you just become part of it now.

National Russia Association

I like this too — it’s cute and serves the purpose as a reference to this dumpster fire, but more importantly, it taints the brand image of Mar-a-lago, both in one fell swoop.

Tsar-a-lago gets my vote.

All four remaining members of the commission are serving on expired terms (until replaced):

Caroline C. Hunter, Chairman, Republican, CommissionerHunter@fec.gov Matthew S. Peterson, Republican, CommissionerPetersen@fec.gov Ellen L. Weintraub, Democrat, CommissionerWeintraub@fec.gov Steven T. Walther, Independent, swalther@fec.gov

These people are granted authority legislatively to enforce election law. If they can't or won't do the job, their authority should be rescinded by law.

Specifically, any one of those people presented with evidence of illegal campaign coordination who refuses to act is simply not doing their job.

I don't think they're broke. that's misleading. Just that their donations from last 2 years have dropped.

That is awesome. I really enjoyed, then "Move it Eric" addition.

Though the downside is it is sadly accurate, Trump does so much illegal or idiotic things that it basically just becomes noise at some point.

is...is this f5 o'clock?

/sub/russialago

"we KNOW you're going to do absolutely nothing about it"

FTFY

The rust belt legislatures don't really have to worry about a blue wave like the Republicans do at the Federal level. I really hope the Democrats can enact federal laws that protect voters at the state level. Common sense stuff, like you don't have to tender two different pieces of ID, you don't have to have mailing address to be eligible, etc.

It is so blatant that it doesn’t even seem sloppy. Everyone involved probably just thinks there aren’t going to be any consequences.

This is a perfectly reasonable calculation on their part, given the complete unwillingness and/or inability of the US judicial system to hold power to account.

Jesse Eisinger wrote about the Chickenshit Club, how we only jailed one top banker after 2008, yet prosecutors aggressively went after a small, family owned, Chinese immigrant bank (even going so far as staging perp walks). Almost everyone involved in the Iran-Contra affair was pardoned (by HW Bush) or granted immunity. Jeffrey Epstein was given a 'sweetheart deal' after systematically trafficking underage women among a wide circle of Elites.

The list could go on and on. We do not punish people with power in this country, and until we do all of these people flagrantly violating rules, regulations, and the public trust will continue to do so. I do not hold out much hope that this trend is somehow going to reverse as a consequence of anything done during the 2016 election. We should remain skeptical and be prepared to throw a massive, nation wide tantrum if/when we get to the end of a special counsel investigation concludes without giving us the justice we all deserve.

They’re considering giving Maria Butina a deal?!?!

The fucking Russian spy whose goal was to divide the country and get trump elected?

That wretched sack of shit needs to sit in an American prison cell until she’s too old and wrinkly for any moron GOP/NRA beta to give her any attention. Make her a useless spy that cannot sell the only thing she has going for her: youth and sex to lure old, ugly men.

Fuckin hell that last story really bugged me when it first dropped. It was very click-baity and I lost some respect for Michael Isikoff (the journalist who reported that story).

I can't go back and find the link right now, but if you go back to the original reporting at yahoo news, it makes it sound like these wiretaps of Torshin occurred recently and connected to Trump Jr. directly. They were not, and were in fact recorded years ago, thy were just handed over to Mueller recently. None of the contents in the wiretaps had anything to do with Trump jr. They only said Trump jr. should be concerned because Torshin has been under investigation for being a huge criminal going back years. So it was just the connection the two had rather than anything having to do with the wiretaps themselves.

I remember having to go on and on in the comments section seeing everyone misinterpret that story, because Isikoff wrote it so misleadingly. He even went on air, I think it was MSNBC, and clarified these wiretaps occurred way before the relationship with Trump jr. began.

There are pretty pictures of the signed airtime contracts too.

Also - AMAG... MAGA... just sayin'.

" The ads, which the campaign purchased through a firm called American Media & Advocacy Group (AMAG), were aimed at precisely the same demographic as the NRA spots, and often ran during the same shows, bombarding Norfolk viewers with complementary messages."

Step 6) Strip it’s assets and let it wither and die

Who was Russian’s pointman for the NRA? Maria Butina.

Who is Mueller interrogating? Maria Butina.

Let the investigation roll.

Spies can cut deals, if they have enough info to make it worth not prosecuting them.

Maybe, but fucking tomorrow is going to be lit:

Comey's private testimony on the hill Cohen's sentencing documents Manafort's "fucking liar" documents

And I think there's one more thing that I can't remember just now.

Not only that, but they are continuing to commit more crimes, like obstruction of justice.

I’ve thought about this too. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Mueller report specifically spelled out that it will take years to untangle every criminal act done by trump before and during his campaign. That the charges in his report are just the bare surface.

Oh? $55M you say?

Care to wager how much contributions to them dropped the follow year?

You only get one guess.

http://fortune.com/2018/11/27/after-nra-reports-massive-drop-in-contributions-gun-stocks-take-a-hit/

That’s a funny story in itself. He didn’t even know what the phrase meant but people cheered so he adopted it.

But yeah, he’s going to take so many people and organizations down with him he’s definitely putting a dent in the swamp.

"Oh that can't happen, and if it does it's not a big deal. Because freedom."

-SCOTUS (via Citizens United/Emily’s List/SpeechNOW.org v. FEC)

And Russia funneled $30m to the NRA.

The sanctions could also make it much harder for Mr. Trump to ease tensions with Russia, “which has just thrown the U.S.A. election to him,” [K. T. McFarland] wrote in the emails obtained by The Times.

They are not broke. That's PR from the NRA itself. They want more donations.

Huh, the same NRA that funnels Russian money into American politics. 'Tis the treason I guess.

“Imagine these little toys are your various crimes; this one’s money laundering, this one’s accepting illegal campaign donations, and this little cutie is conspiracy with a foreign country. Now, when we try to push them all through the door into the Special Council, look at what happens:

whoopwhoopwhoopwhoop, move it chowdah-head!

I'm just waiting for Trump to try to declare the house elections invalid and the GOP to refuse to cede power. After Wisconsin, well, I now believe there is no low the GOP will refuse to stoop to.

Exactly what I was thinking. Even with this new info, I'll be surprised if anyone faces any sort of consequence.

10x is an underestimation given multinational angle and the fact this current fiasco may involve the entire republican party.

It's more like the spreading of cracks in a frozen lake. You keep running around/away, but more cracks spring out in every direction.

Libertarians are authoritarians who don't like it when (democratic) government interferes with conventional power structures elsewhere in society. When they speak of liberty, they're talking about the liberty of the already powerful to bend the powerless to their will using money, religion, or social status.

Thank Citizens United for giving us endless corruption with zero consequences.

Nationalist Russians in America.

when do we stop prosecuting.

I have a pet theory that this is actually the Democrats' most powerful pressure point moving forward.

As the scale of this web of GOP-organized, Russia-funded crime begins to come into clearer focus for the American public, the GOP will get to a point where they have to consider cooperating with Democrats as a show of good faith.

This could mean a lot of different things, but my theory is that Democrats could agree to keeping the more sordid details of the Mueller investigation--and their subsequent House investigations--out of the public eye if the GOP publicly pushes Trump to resign or face impeachment. In addition, Dems could demand the GOP move forward favorably with their anti-corruption and voter protection legislation unveiled last week. Which would actually be a life-line considering it allows the GOP to at least feign interest in the security and stability of our republic.

Again, just a pet theory. But there's real leverage there.

And just so I'm clear, I don't mean anybody should be let off the hook for complicity in these crimes. I'm just saying the House Dems have a lot of control over how much of the details go public.

We'll see what happens.

I don't suspect the GOP is interested in dealing though. They're likely going to roll the dice one more time and hope they land on their feet yet again.

I'd love for Congress to have a look at the NRA. For so long dems have been afraid to take them on. They were too powerful and there were political consequences. Apparently that's why the NRA didn't make much effort to hide their shenanigans.

The NRA is weakened now, they've been accused of some serious shit and the new congress is full of bold, young people who are hungry for change. If the NRA committed some illegal or unethical acts I hope they're exposed.

thursday f5 to prep for friday f5 bombshell!

​

gosh damn the paper trails are like chutes and ladders

Albert Ellis who is considered one of the most influential psychologists of all the times wrote a book analyzing Ayn Rand's philosophies. He asked Ayn Rand many times to face each other in a public debate. She always declined. But she allowed one of her proteges Nathaniel Branden to debate Ellis. In front of an audience of one thousand people including Rand herself Ellis showed those people what kind of craziness they were believing and spreading around. Needless to say Rand and those people were really pissed. After the debate Rand even put an end to the friendship with Branden. There is an audio of the debate somewhere. But this is a telling of what happened during that heated debate.

Epically losing the house, appointment of the special counsel, all of the indictments, the convictions so far, everything coming to light in the media such as this very article we are commenting on. Yeah I want this to be over right now and it’s painfully slow, but I wouldn’t say there have not been ANY consequences...

Step 4) Install an illegitimate Supreme Court Justice who will decide this is perfectly fine

Any infrastructure is a real stumbling block for libertarians. Are all roads private - and not just 'toll roads' - but truly private where I personally get to decide who can drive on them? Do we have 10 different water companies each running pipes under ground?

What about the environment? Someone has a pollution belching factory, what good does it do me to sue them once the water table is destroyed and the town already has cancer?

Cambridge Analytica has come, gone, returned and disappeared again from this story. Now they're out pulling their shenanigans under a new name with no negative consequences. So much corruption it's hard to keep track.

Libertarianism: Republicans that smoke weed

They absolutely are not broke. Their donations went down from 2016 to 2017 by $55 million (coincidentally the amount the NRA spent on 2016 election spending for republican candidates).

The NRA is a fear mongering organization through and through. That’s it. Period. And this is another fear mongering tactic.

“ThE eViL DEmoCrATs aRe gONnA tAkE yeR gUNs!!”

“ThE eVIL dEmOcrAtS arE wAgINg WAR oN us PATRioTic MerIcanS”

“OuR doNaTIons ARe DoWN beCauSE thE EViL LibRuLs aRe wInnInG”

...

“So donate to the NRA NOW! Your second amendment rights are at risk if WE don’t get more money!”

And the perpetually terrified and easily manipulated continue to cough up money so they can put that fancy NRA sticker on their car next to the “my family” gun silhouette stickers and the blue bar shit-on-the-American-flag shaped to look like a skull sticker.

This is a culture of crimes that has been going on for a real while. The only thing that even remotely compares in scale was the 2008 investigations after recession. But that was miraculously shut down.

Let's just call it Treason.

She was also a pro-abortion atheist.

We all knew this many, many months ago.

Putin's blood money funded the NRA, Trump, and the Republican Party.

Thanks a lot, right-wing "patriots." You delivered the Oval Office to Russia's Vladimir Putin on a silver platter.

So Trump was right when he said he was going to drain the swamp?

Huh .. never thought I'd agree with Ayn Rand on anything.

Hey it's not illegal if you win the election, right?

I am waiting for a scandal involving fence manufacturers so we can finally have Gategate and call it quits.

The ONE thing I hopefully can give credit to Trump is inadvertently taking down the NRA

there's like 10x the amount of crimes compared to Watergate.

I think that's a pretty dramatic understating of the scope of crimes. Watergate was a break-in and the associated cover-up. This is on pace to be thousands of times as many crimes, when all is uncovered.

L'Affaire Russe

If you haven't read Atlas shrugged the first thing to know is that it's long and boring as shit. The second thing to know is that she rails just as hard against crony capitalism as she rails against anything else. The third thing is that it's worth reading if only for the reason that people who think they agree with it didnt understand the first thing about the book.

Trump is easily James Taggart she is wholehearted against immient domain (relevant to trump seizing land for border wall) Her views on capitalism don't match at all with is practiced in the US Natural talent is just as important as hard working attitude.

I hated reading atlud shrugged it took me a long time to slug through it. But between me and the others that I know that actually read the book we don't agree on the whole message that the internet says the book say.

people presented with evidence of illegal campaign coordination who refuses to act is simply not doing their job.

That is currently where we are at unfortunately.

More broadly speaking, that is a feature for the GOP.

trump is famous for quitting when things get hard. i wonder if his plan is just to resign.

I tried to debate a hard core libertarian once but fuck that they are a special kind of stupid. Few, of any, even know what it means and have no clue how their ideology could ever work.

This dude was all about very limited government. Taxes only for military and defense and I’m like ok how do we get roads? He couldn’t get past that. Just spouted nonsensical shit about personal responsibility. It comes down to money grubbing racism. That’s libertarianism.

They may have to tighten their bootstraps soon too

I've never needed more ammo than "Point to a place on the globe where these ideas have been implemented, and the society is thriving." And then after the response, I say "So this is all theoretical stuff that's never been tested in real life?"

Though it still mystifies me why so many of them are pro-life

It's because most libertarians are just republicans that feel enough shame to try to hide it